Episode 6: The Human-Factor in Tech-Driven Procurement with Andra Fola

[00:00:00] Intro: The Powering Procurement podcast is brought to you by Atamis, sourced to contract software designed to save you time and money. Hello, and welcome to Powering Procurement, a podcast by Atamis, where we unpack the world of procurement and supply chain management with the help of industry leaders. I’m your host, Sian Lloyd, and this is our resident expert, Gareth Burch. Gareth Burch:  Hi. After 20 years in procurement, I may be billed as an expert, but believe me, I’m here to learn too. Each episode together with our expert guests, we’ll dive into specific challenges and opportunities facing the procurement industry today. And we’ll explore easy wins and longer term strategies to help you rise to the challenge of driving value through your work while showcasing the power of procurement. So let’s get going. 

[00:00:51] Sian Lloyd:  Welcome to Powering Procurement. Today, we’re joined by Andra Fola, CEO and solutionary architect of solutionary procurement. With more than 15 years of experience in procurement leadership roles at companies like Amazon and Vodafone, Andra has made a significant impact in the field by blending technological innovation with human centric strategies. She is the driving force behind solutionary procurement, a platform that aims to amplify human superpowers within the procurement profession and harness the power of personas to create a positive global impact.

[00:01:30] Gareth Burch:  Andrea’s experience spans procurement innovation, digital transformation, and leadership development. Beyond her work at solutionary procurement, she’s a mentor, startup accelerator, and advocate for diversity and inclusion in the tech and procurement industries. We’re thrilled to have you here today to discuss your varied career in procurement and how you’re reimagining procurement as a force of good through the concept of solutionary procurement. Welcome, Andrea.

[00:01:58] Andra Fola:  Hello. It’s so good to be here, and thank you for inviting me. Um, it’s, um, I’m a bit nervous. I hope that I will be relaxing and be able to transmit the messages and uh, inspire everybody with, uh, what we are doing together. So

[00:02:14] Gareth Burch:  Yeah. You’ll be fine. You’ll be fine.

[00:02:16] Sian Lloyd:  Andrea, it’s great to talk to you today, and we’re really interested to hear more about your story. We know that procurement can be a profession that people tend to fall into. That’s not always the case. But we’d love to hear a little bit about how you got into the industry in the 1st place, so to rewind the clock a bit, and here’s some of the steps along that journey, please.

[00:02:39] Andra Fola:  Thank you. Sure. I will, um, I will happily share my my story. I also fall into procurement, but who fall into procurement early. Meaning, I believe is when I wind back, my progress is a bit of destiny. So I’m passionate about coding. I’m very mathematical oriented. That’s my upbringing, my education. And then my first solution that I build on my own was a stock management solution for a restaurant that I worked in. So somehow, the field drew me, logistics, supply chain, procurement. My first real, real serious job, like a full time job, Was, uh, help us in logistics, in technology, in telecommunication. I tried to do finance, so I did a pivot of my career in business intelligence in finance. I survived for, I think, 11 months, and then supply chain management was set up for a year as a stand alone department in Vodafone, and I end up calling to go. So I fall into it, but with a calling, it would be my summary.

[00:03:48] Gareth Burch:  I it’s really interesting. So, uh, weirdly, I fell into procurement all those years ago as well. And my my background was I was in IT, and I had to reinstall a piece of software on the head of procurement’s PDA that long ago, a PDA. And literally just started chatting to him, exploring what he did, how how they like, his his lovely office, lovely view, all of this. And it was the 1st time I was really introduced to procurement. And immediately, it was interesting, the negotiation side, the external relationship, internal relationship. And then once I put my foot in the door, exactly the same. I know I absolutely loved the career. And although kind of coming into the Atamis world, I still have my foot in the door with procurement, which is fantastic, but then bring the procurement lens into the business, which from a technology perspective, both of my worlds both of, like, my interests are kind of encapsulated in the same area. But, yeah, I I think only 1 person I know who’s actually wanted to go into procurement.

[00:04:58] Andra Fola:  I’m I’m not surprised. Yes. That’s the, um, that’s the trend. But, uh, I think in your case is where the magic happens and it’s it’s your story is amazing. You know? How I can build it on five personas and everything that I’m doing. Because when you’re married, it is interesting, your superpowers, areas of fashion like you do with tech and this is where magic happens. This is where it can really, really make a different stand out and have a differentiator. So, yeah, it’s I’m happy to hear.

[00:05:27] Gareth Burch:  So one one of our core missions at Atmos is to elevate procurement professions and emphasize the strategic role of procurement and what we can bring to the top table. One of the main reasons we started thinking about the podcast was to really put the spotlight on procurement and go beyond to focus on how rewarding of a career procurement can be. So I wanted to ask, how do you think procurement roles have evolved since the start of your career?

[00:05:56] Andra Fola:  Maturity curve. So it started with very tactical sort of job where you would do a basic purchasing, maybe some buying, a bit of contracting, creating a bit of order in the chaos, putting processes and systems in place, and so on. And now in the last years, I see an acceleration of getting up in the value chain. We become more and more owners of strategic, I think, pillars like the entire ecosystem management. Right? So everything that a a company creates around partnerships, You see more and more m and a. Obviously, you see everything around sustainability that is owned in heavy by procurement. So if yeah. We are a growing baby, now starting and becoming a full grown adult, that it’s time to take ownership, I think, in in the impact that we can truly, truly create. And it’s fantastic to see that it remains a small community. So it’s somebody wrote about DBW meeting as, uh, it’s a small village. So everybody knows everybody. So when you think of the impact that we can create in procurement, because you can link amazing organizations very quickly, and you can drive a voice and a direction. And we can really understand the impact that we can have as a community, as an industry, because we are small enough to be able to create this change and impactful enough to really roll it out, uh, in the world zone. Um, it’s really exciting to see.

[00:07:35] Sian Lloyd:  It’s really interesting to hear you talk about it as a community, and Gareth is obviously an expert and part of that community I’m very much a a layperson and learning an awful lot as I go along. So perhaps I’d like to ask you quite a basic question in a way, which is to explain, really, what solutionary procurement is. You know? What inspired you to create it? What’s the the backstory and the aim really, Andra?

[00:08:06] Andra Fola:  Thank you. Like in Geras’ case, it’s, I think, an overlap of personal interest and then opportunities that you’ll serve. Right? So that’s how I created solutionary procurement. I started building an idea on top of the impact that I see procurement can have, and seen how easy is is have the right work would be to do it because we are a small community, because we are in every large company, because all the money of the world are influenced by the smallest community in the world. When you compare the function and the industry with any other sales, marketing, finance, we are the smallest. Right? So you count procurement professionals and leaders easy. So I think we we sit on this potential impact. So that’s why it drew me into procurement and purpose led. Right? So the impact that we can take in the world is truly, truly fantastic. And then there is an untapped potential and an untapped aerial value. And I think there is value in what we don’t measure, and that’s people. So having witnessed through 20 year of procurement through what I’m doing and my teams have been doing, I’ve witnessed the magic of the personal impact. The people that can turn a business around or a deal around or can transform a failure into a success or that have build amazing relationships over time. And then in times of crisis like COVID, you can, you know, solve business problems with 3 phone calls. This is not seen and not measured in any way, and I think it’s not valued enough. So when I put all these together, impact that procurement can have by our magic setup in organizations of having this influence for all the investment, public and private, And then having this untapped potential of the what I believe is the superpower, and I love what you’re calling your podcast power procurement because I use that a lot. I believe that’s untapped people impact. Combining these 2, um, made sense. And then where I am now, solutionary procurement is still an experiment. So, uh, I’m experimenting solutions, either technology solutions or programs, products, frameworks like 5 personas to create the systemic change and then be in a position to deliver value. So deliver return of investment and talk business language and make this sustainable change and make it easy for the leaders to to sell internally and get funding for investing in people.

[00:10:53] Gareth Burch:  I think that’s been one of the hardest bits in my career is demonstrating the ROI of the investment and the training. Leaders often look at procurement either as a method to just reduce cost and ignore the wider value concepts or, actually, it’s a tick box exercise. And, yes, the tick box exercise generates value, but it’s one where having a leader who understands it, and we can demonstrate we’re more than just a a cost reduction function. We are actually a a true value function. You talk about COVID and absolutely jumping on these things in these situations, having a clear line of sight, what services are impacted, what we can do to mitigate the impact to the end customers. It does give procurement the opportunity to to really elevate 2 stages, But I think it’s I’ve always struggled with how we upscale the team, how we demonstrate the value of the upscale, but then getting our voice heard correctly at the top table. And sometimes you have a leader who’s an absolute advocate and loves everything procurement does, but potentially conveys this maybe the not not the quite mess right messaging. But it is one where it seems really interesting because within the within this, you’ve talked about the 5 personas framework. Could you explain that a little bit more? So I’ve read it, but it’s always great when you read it. You may not interpret it as it’s meant. So it’d be great to hear hear it from yourself.

[00:12:30] Andra Fola:  The wider context of creating a framework is build exactly on what you are observing. It is hard to demonstrate value, and then it’s hard to drive change. And in order in order to do that, you need a systemic approach. Otherwise, you are missing 1 element. Either you miss the value measurement, you miss receiving the signals of change, or you miss the language to explain, or you miss, I think, enough vision or inspiring mission to attract and so on. Right? So in order for us create this change where it’s hard to it’s a huge industry that works on people and people development that has the same challenge for many, many, many years of demonstrating royals of investment in people. You need a framework that simplifies this entire matrix of elements that you need to consider and make it easy for you to sell. So that’s that’s how I ended up creating 5 personas as a framework. Because what it has in it, it has purpose. So we all talk, and I only talk about the value that we create. So what drives us to come to work and wake up, and it’s our inner, if you want, drives to make a difference. Because all all the personas are linked with the impact that they create, either competitive advantage or ecosystems and so on. So each one of us has this element that we can uniquely both trigger and grow. So it has this element of purpose, then it has the element of human superpower. So our, one, innate abilities, we are all born with a bit of a chip. We are great in some things and less great in others. But then we also buy by our curiosity and the opportunities that life offers and the opportunities that we create or were given to us, we end up growing into a field of the other. It’s can be analytics. It can be tech like yours. It yeah. So I think it’s a combination of who we are when we are born, but then also the opportunities that we create and the lives gives us that create the superpowers that are our different. That’s how we deliver value. So that’s another element, um, that is, um, um, added into the framework. And the 3rd that I believe is really new and missing in in everything that’s related to jobs and the future of work is identity. So having worked through my own change, my personal journey of changing the way I perceive myself and my career pathways and becoming a mom and a woman and whatever. Right? All the hats that we were, I understand how powerful the sense of identity is. And when we attach ourselves to a professional identity, we have really, I think, more action than the ability to have higher performance because it’s something that we associate with. Right? And that’s an another area. So there are 3 big elements in this entire soup, if you want, of framework. And to be able to drive all 3 and sell them and implement them, It creates complexities. So then 5 personas add simplicity on top. Right? So we distill all these into what are the patterns of impact, identity, and superpowers that will survive this moment of transformation and will continue to create value in the future and offer small opportunities for people to buy within and outside of procurement. Because when you are realizing and you’re stepping into your catalyst power, for example, yeah, that’s to drive transformation, to bring change, to bring resources in. You do it in procurement. You can do it equally well in IT. You can do it equally well in a technology deployment. You can do it in procure tech and so on and so on. Right? So it opens up a world of infinite possibilities build on who you are at your best. That’s what 5 personas is. It’s a way to simplify all these value drivers and be able, in a systemic way, to implement it and drive the change with your teams. Yeah. So it makes it actionable in real life.

[00:16:56] Sian Lloyd:  It’s really interesting what you were saying there about honing the superpowers of people. Because I wondered, you know, was there a specific gap that you had identified when you were really inspired to come up with a solution? And you particularly spoke there about identity, which I noticed. I wonder whether this approach then could potentially have an even further ripple out effect, not just through organizations, but are you anticipating through the industry as a whole? And is that something because of what you’ve experienced over your career over the years?

[00:17:33] Andra Fola:  Yes. I have identified the gap. In our industry procurement, people development, and people centricity solutions is almost an empty space. And what I’m seeing and observing, having pushing or selling, um, ideas and concepts in the last couple of years is an empty space because there is no demand either. So, yes, there is a gap, but it’s that gap that I don’t know if it will be fulfilled. That’s procurement. And then there is a wider gap in the way we look at jobs and work that goes beyond our industry and touches this identity. So I think we are using leadership as an identity that we attach and build capabilities and build growth opportunities around and programs. So leadership is in itself a professional identity that you can attach yourself to, And that’s very much used, but beyond that, very little. And I have seen the research, not in professional field, but outside, inner music, for example, where this idea of identity that you take when you embark learning something new, like a new instrument, for example, can have 4 times improvement on your performance when you adapt or where you embark a long term identity and you see yourself as a musician rather than thinking that you are, you know, trying to learn something. Right? So I I truly believe it’s powerful, and I believe that that’s how we operate as humans. And the connection between these worlds outside of leadership as a persona and as an identity, it’s not used. And we are. My observation, 1, you see younger generations looking at purpose and the meaning of what why we do things. Also, you know, all of us, right? So we see it in our own journey that when you attach yourself, the impact that you are creating and you take ownership of it, you have a very different performance than when you don’t and where you’re not able to see beyond your job and you don’t see the impact. So I think each one of us individually values and would value having more opportunities to attach ourselves and our work to something that is meaningful to us. So that’s the gap and the opportunity and how I see bridging beyond, uh, procurement as an industry.

[00:20:08] Gareth Burch:  Training point you raised was quite interesting and actually does resonate with one of the challenges I had as a procurement leader. How do I elevate my team? How do I encourage that growth in the team? And what’s the right way to grow them? And one of the models I used was almost a flexible progression for a buyer role. So they’d start an assistant buyer, move to buyer, move to senior buyer, and not create the the sort of the glass ceiling within each role, allow that fluidity to move and progress. But one of the big issues was training. How do I train them and develop them correctly? And I ended up defaulting. It was just a natural default to the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply and encouraging the team to go down that route to reward them and link it with one of the issues I had with that people didn’t want to study. They were at the stage in their career. They they didn’t have time to. Especially something although I I like it worked out amazing for me, it’s a lot of commitment. It’s a lot of effort. It’s a lot of work. And I could never find that or strike that right balance as a procurement leader to how I can train and upscale my team without going to the kind of that full professional qualification. And almost is there there was almost what could be in the middle.

[00:21:30] Andra Fola:  It resonates. And I believe, like, universities and schools and all the programs that we have now, um, told wide, they are not really honing into what can you touch, what’s the impact that you want to create, what’s important to the business, and how are you best positioned to do that. So it’s not looking at the individual and growing into their superpowers. Right? It’s trying to provide a wide curriculum that requires time and a lot of investment, uh, that professionals that work, um, don’t have it at hand. So that’s where I believe this middle ground that you are looking for can help. And that’s what I’m trying to create as an opportunity and as a market is really understanding what people are amazing at, understanding what’s the impact that you want to create. So what’s your strategy? What’s the business strategy? What’s the procurement strategy? Are you, you know, trying to create competitive advantage in some areas? Is it more a commercial leadership? So it’s no innovation, it’s more a battle of prices and availability. Right? So understanding really going from what you are trying to create and the impact that you are trying to create, how the people that you have and what you are looking for are well positioned or not to create that, and where do they need to work and to go very target. That I believe would be a more pragmatic approach because you are doing you are investing really where it truly matters, in what it truly matters rather than putting people into things that are extremely wide that that they will use maybe 10% out of. And not to mention that a lot of the curricula that you would need is missing. And I’m talking about creativity. I’m talking about critical thinking. I’m talking about emotional intelligence. I’m talking about psychological safety. All these human capabilities, then in a procurement curriculum now, you would not find. But I think it’s what procurement truly shines into. And so these are the the gaps that I am trying to fulfill. Right? So these, if you want targeted intervention, if you want to call it on what I what I am amazing at and what the business needs. And then I have a very targeted investment, and then focusing on what truly truly matters. And that’s our human superpowers, especially when we look at the future where we will have more and more AI taking out of knowledge work and more technology covering a lot of the things that we do now with people. Our humanity will make a difference. Being standing amazingly in our human issues and doing what we do at a higher level, that will make a huge difference for for businesses and for our lives. So, yes, it’s a it resonates your experience. I had the same, and that’s why I’m building what I’m building. Yeah.

[00:24:19] Gareth Burch:  It’s quite interesting, yeah, the reference to AI. So AI is something as a as a business, we’re looking at how AI can help procurement. What can AI bring to make procurement more effective and more efficient? And there’s definitely the concept with, is AI going to replace me? And my view of the world is very much, no. It’s there to help you. But then I suppose, what are the challenges you’re facing within the persona model, if any, that AI or the threats AI could bring?

[00:24:48] Andra Fola:  I’m a true believer in AI, and also I I believe that, you know, change is inevitable. And if you don’t harness the benefits of it, it’s not going to make a difference. I have a business that does also and brings AI in technology. Where I think when I look I think in a future beyond next 10 years, nobody can truly, truly see how we are gonna change at the macro level. There are many macro elements at play from social unrest to globalization or, uh, localization and so on so on so on that will dramatically shift how the world looks. But until then, there are some safe bets. And my safe bet for businesses are is human capital. And why? Because I believe technology is becoming cheaper, and it will level the playing field. Right? You will have companies will have access to buy your technology or mine in equal levels. It’s not, uh, next orbit than ice because it is becoming cheaper and cheaper. That’s that’s what, uh, the law of technology has been in the last 30, 40 years. And when technology becomes accessible, and where you can differentiate yourself is through human capital. So investing in people independently on how the world will evolve, being able to, you know, foresee it or not is a safe and the safest bet that we have at hand. And we can see the change coming, and we see this knowledge work shift that industrialization brought 150 years ago for another part of our work life, that we transform what we do. And changing people takes time. It takes time. Even when you want to change, it takes time. I think my changed journey, I am doing it for 3 to 4 years, reinventing myself, repositioning as an entrepreneur, and upskilling and rethinking what I’m doing. And I want to. I’m, you know, immensely motivated to do it. And it’s still very hard because it a lot of fear and a lot of pushback internally from my sense of identity, from who I am, from where I’m being value. So it takes time. Right? That’s the nature of who we are. And if we don’t invest early, then we will find ourselves too late at a moment where we won’t be able to shift, uh, enter, and and produce this change. So that’s how I see the world of a leader taking decisions now. I believe if we are waiting for somebody to foresee how the future will look beyond 6 to 10 years, I think there is low probability. So what we can do now is isolate the safe bets. So what we make and create a a business differentiator. Yeah. And That’s for me as human capital.

[00:27:36] Sian Lloyd:  Andrew, we’ve had some great thoughts from you throughout this podcast, and, really, I’ve certainly learned a lot. You’ve given us the big thoughts, but also I think we have really delved quite deeply into to what all this is about. We’re gonna head to our final comments now, and we do like to ask our guests 1 particular question in particular. But before we go to that, I know that Gareth’s got a burning question. Haven’t you, Gareth?

[00:27:59] Gareth Burch:  So we can’t have you on the podcast without asking your time at Amazon. As an Amazon customer and as a procurement professional, it’s it’s very much of interest to me. And I believe you are instrumental in setting up their supplier management program. What was your strategy going into that, and what was the strategic outcomes you were looking to obtain? Because from my view, that is a significant undertaking with a lot of complex moving parts.

[00:28:29] Andra Fola:  Yes. It’s true. And first, I want to acknowledge the fact that Time Azov is a fascinating organization from a culture, language, processes, dynamics, frameworks, language. So it gives me and it gave me hope that people can change truly. It’s fascinating to see how people land in Amazon, and then in 2 months, they speak Amazonian. So that’s the merit of Amazon. The surprising finding was that is extremely decentralized from a procurement perspective. So it’s like they keep this innovative spirit, and that’s how they manage to to remain on top in their industry for so long or disrupting other industries. It’s each business unit has its own procurement function. Right? So that was my surprise when I came from a mammoth, another mammoth like Vodafone that is extremely globalized going into Amazon, larger mammals, but then with more independent outlooks. So that was my I didn’t expect. So from thinking from where I wanted to create the impact and what I managed to see and find in Amazon, that was the biggest gap. What I impart when I started talking about supplier relationship and risk and this entire landscape, What I prepared in the time that I spent at Amazon, I prepared on comprehensive direction, distilling the pillars that you want to have and you don’t want to miss. And then what will create differentiator, and I believe that in Amazon’s case is Black Swan’s. Like in any large business with global footprint, when you talk about relationship and peace management, you want to have a process around how do we handle, um, uh, black swans. And it was the right moment to go into with this agenda into the business because I joined them during COVID. So and that helped. Uh, it helped to land the message. It helped to land the need, uh, to have it. So I think if there is something that I brought and that I’m really proud of, is starting to think about, you know, replicating everything that is being done and covering the basics, but rather going beyond that. And as a a mammoth business, look at how do you build processes and people and capabilities and technology around managing and responding to unforeseeable.

[00:30:51] Sian Lloyd:  And, Anja, really, it’s been a theme throughout our conversation that you do seem to always be looking at lasting impact, um, particularly now with this venture and with solutionary procurement. But I just wanted to quickly bring in also the work that you’ve done around mentoring, around inclusion and diversity, and how that really is also part of this very rich tapestry.

[00:31:13] Andra Fola:  It is, and it’s it’s it’s very dear to me, and everything that I do, 5 personas, for example, is an illustration of my beliefs that we are all uniquely equipped with qualities that connect us, that create opportunities for us to matter. And I focus now on that rather than what differentiates us. So I’m trying to change the narrative between I’m a woman, I’m a man. I have um, a disability. I think differently. I believe differently. Whatever. I have a different religion, color of skin. Towards more, what that is bringing as a unique value is it it can be perspective. It can be personal experience. It can be belief about value. It can be so our differentiators create opportunities for unique perspectives, and I focus on creating space for that to bring value. So that’s how I try to support my agenda, my strong beliefs in our humanity and, uh, our each of our plays to make a difference. And I’m trying to create systemic processes or framework or solutions to enable that, to change the narratives, to not focus on our differences, but rather focus on our values. As a woman in leadership and also as a woman in tech, I’ve always been one of the very few and the youngest in my field and one of the very few women. And a lot of the narrative that I experienced was trying to fit in somebody else’s shoes. I’d be more assertive, be more like something else rather than seeing what I am unique to the equity because I am a woman and because I’m Romanian and because I am young and whatever, you know, my mispronunciator was. So I believe that’s more powerful. That’s where you can really tap into what people have to offer and their best. So but that’s my that’s my agenda. I’m very open, um, about it. That’s what I’m trying to create, space for us to and for our differences to be seen as superpowers and generate value rather than make us feel we don’t belong. We try to fit in something else that is not who we are.

[00:33:31] Gareth Burch:  And the final question, Andrea, why are you happy that you went into procurement?

[00:33:37] Andra Fola:  It’s easy to answer because I’m here. It’s led me to path of excitement and new and change, and I love change. I’m an architect. By the way, if you’re wondering who I am from the 5 personas, I like to build things. And working in procurement has, uh, given me the space to do that, to bring new things, to create impact, to connect, to understand businesses, have something new every day to so it fits with who I am. So that’s why I’m very happy. And it feels like, you know, circling back to how we started the podcast. It’s destiny. No.

[00:34:13] Gareth Burch:  It’s been great having you on the podcast, and great to hear from you.

[00:34:17] Andra Fola:  Thank you for having me, and well done. And keep on pushing, and keep on driving the agenda, and keep on talking about it. And it’s fantastic what you’re doing. If I can support with anything, I’m always here. So when done to you. Thank you. Thank you for

[00:34:36] Gareth Burch:  That wraps up this episode of Powering Procurement. We hope you enjoyed that as much as we did. Visit our website at atamis.co.uk or follow us on LinkedIn to continue the conversation. Remember to subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you choose to listen. Thanks for joining us, and see you next time on Powering Procurement. The Powering Procurement podcast is brought to you by Atamis, sourced to contract software designed to save you time and money. Choose the apps you need from pipeline and tender management to supplier and contract management. Get the tools to power up your procurement. Visit atamis.co.uk to learn more.